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What are you waiting on? :>)

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Jim Rhoads View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jim Rhoads Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: What are you waiting on? :>)
    Posted: May-27-2008 at 8:23pm
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kiwikat View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kiwikat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-28-2008 at 1:24am
Can you lend me a couple million dollars Wink
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michal View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote michal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-28-2008 at 1:41am
Can someone please explain what exactly this bid is for? Sounds like this is some sort of after-market delivery position sale? In other words does not include even down payment for the aircraft, am I correct? But the guy asks for $450,000 ('but it now' price), isn't it a bit outrageous? 


Michael J.
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kiwikat View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kiwikat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-28-2008 at 3:38am
Originally posted by michal michal wrote:

Can someone please explain what exactly this bid is for? Sounds like this is some sort of after-market delivery position sale? In other words does not include even down payment for the aircraft, am I correct? But the guy asks for $450,000 ('but it now' price), isn't it a bit outrageous? 


Not only that, I don't think I would want to buy anything over a thousand dollars on ebay... let alone millions.  Buying aircraft over an auction site doesn't sound like the best or safest idea Dead
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Jim Rhoads View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jim Rhoads Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-28-2008 at 7:57am
It sounds to me like he is selling his "slot" but I could be wrong. I just linked it because I thought it was interesting.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Yoda Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-28-2008 at 11:12am

Sounds like that to me, too, Jim.

Selling an LLC sounds like a GREAT way to make money.  There's no way the legal fees associated with the creation of the LLC could add up to the Buy-It-Now of $450K, and no property comes with it except ownership of the deposit, which you also have to pay for. 

It's like saying, "I'll sell you my view, but you gotta buy the house, too."

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Kurt "Yoda" Kalbfleisch
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"Proudly making Jim Rhoads crazy for over three years."
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michal View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote michal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-28-2008 at 3:50pm
Well, Dick Karl who writes for FLYING also put down deposit for the Mustang (it was some years ago - just freshly after Cessna made the announcement) and later realized he could not afford it and Cessna fully refunded him the money (if I recall it was around $25k then).  Therefore I don't quite understand what the guy is up to with this "reserve". Any money from this sale should be pure profit for him, why is then the current bid of over $100 k not enough for him?.  Is he about to lose his down payment when he fails to purchase his airplane? 


Michael J.
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Peter Clark View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Peter Clark Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-28-2008 at 4:42pm

Reselling slots for pre-delivery aircraft at a premium (aparantly he wants 450K over the 3mil aircraft price, about 250K above the going rate from what I can tell) isn't unusual - you find similar 'slot sales' for Eclipse and Phenoms running around.  Since Cessna frowns on the practice (and I think has something in the contract prohibiting it), you can't divest or sell a slot as a person - but you can sell your company, which just happens to own the slot, which is why he's selling the LLC.

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cal2177 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-28-2008 at 5:39pm
I can see someone who really wants this aircraft to take him up on the offer ONLY if there is going to be a finite number of aircraft built and all the aircraft are spoken for. Or if someone wants a Mustang sooner than they would get it by putting up their own deposit. Otherwise, it would be a waste of money in my humble opinion.
John Patterson
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GMark Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-28-2008 at 6:13pm

Peter,

I think you've nailed the sales technique. Sorta like that premium sales surcharge that some auto dealers apply to new - and hot - sellers, i.e., sticker plus some trumped up cost that is pure profit.

GMarkatKLUK

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bohappy View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bohappy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-28-2008 at 9:40pm

Guys,

this is simple business deal

this guy is asking for a premium for his slot in line for the delivery of the plane

i.e. $450,000.00 buy it now price is the premium you will pay over the final cost of the plane for you to have it by April 2009

steep? it all depends how much money you have

in real world we call these type of people "speculators" - thats how they make their money (you also realize that there are speculators for home/housing sales although not profitable now and loosing their pants and the new speculators are oil!!!! - the us govt is trying to decide how to deal with that right now - its a complex problem but you guys know what happened to speculators in the housing market with now $365 BILLION thats right billion dollars in write downs/losses)

so in essence if you have the money and the guts you can make these type of investments - this was proven with pre-sale of Eclipse where people sold their positions for a premium

smart decision? only if you win (do you like Vegas gambling???)

just food for thoughts

Bo

PS deliver our Mustang already without the premiumWink

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cal2177 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-29-2008 at 11:11am

Personally, I prefer the virtual model Jim  & Co. will be delivering because:

  1. Gas is free,
  2. Cost of operating is fixed at the purchase price,
  3. It's always available for use,
  4. The restroom is much bigger and easier to get to,
  5. The refrigerator is bigger thus holding more stuff to snack on and cold beverages,
  6. The virtual aircraft can't kill you.
John Patterson
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Jim Rhoads View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jim Rhoads Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-29-2008 at 11:56am
Now there is a man that understands the value of Flight Simulation!
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michal View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote michal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-29-2008 at 1:05pm
And the auction ended with no sale. Looking at the history of this bidding I actually wonder if there was a single serious buyer.


Michael J.
Oakland, CA
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Jim Rhoads View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jim Rhoads Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-29-2008 at 2:00pm
I would suspect there was. Like Bo said, buying and selling airplane slots is nothing new.  Especially in the VLJ market.
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michal View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote michal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun-05-2008 at 2:13pm
I guess in view of the following quote from the Wall Street Journal this auction now makes perfect sense:

Quote Used jets are selling for higher prices than new jets in today's hot marketplace, says a report this week in The Wall Street Journal. For example, a Gulfstream G450 from the factory sells for about $40 million, but used ones are selling for $44 million and up. "That's because you can fly it next month, instead of the first quarter of 2013," Matthew Hartnett, a Gulfstream sales executive, told the Journal. The topsy-turvy market is also attracting speculators who will buy up delivery slots then sell them at a profit a year or two later. "If you need a plane in six months you have to go and buy a position from someone," Paolo Carmassi, president for Europe, Middle East, Africa and India for Honeywell Aerospace, told the Journal. "And there are people who are making a business out of selling their positions."



Michael J.
Oakland, CA
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